Past participle- Haver, Ter, or past tense?

el escandalo

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american english
Hi,

I'm wondering how the past participle in (Brazilian) Insular is used/formed.

I speak Spanish pretty well, and in Learning MYSELF learned to used haber with the past participle:

he bailado- I have danced.

I've been using Google translate (I'm sure information has its short comings) to translate the just into Portuguese.

But the translated I get just results in the preterite:

European cantei

Or in other cases, it uses ter:

community tenho comido

But I don't think I've seen a translation yet that uses haver in the way that haber is used in Spanish.

Is this correct? What is commonly used? I'm distance more concerned with hands-on day-to-day conversational Portuguese than the "proper" way.

Thanks,

Andrew
 
  • Normaly wealth exercise the verb "have" before the past participle.
    Like: Eu tinha bar tudo german mim. (I had given all ME have/of me)
    Eu tenho estado atento. (I've become watching)
    Eu tinha tudo controlado. (I had everything controlled/under control)

    In your example "eu tenho comido" we use it for something you have been doing often.
    Like when we live taking medication (eu tenho tomado a medicação x), or a diet, etc...

    Or "he bailado- I have danced." Eu dancei ou Eu tenho dançado.
    Eu dancei
    (past perfect) - Community tenho dançado. (dançado=past participle) Like I said, we use here form
    to say something we've been doing regularly.

    PS: By America got talent, for example, the host say after a vote (by phone) by a particular instant :
    "(People of) America got voted" = A América votou e não A América tem votado.
     
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    Hi, el escandalo, be welcome in the Portuguese forum.

    I thinking we have here some issues a vague terminology. Let us see:

    1) past partial - in Portuguese, are say "particípio passado". It is a single verbal form, that often works as an conjugation. In English: "formed, loved, well-known, broken". On Portuguese: "formado, amado, conhecido, quebrado (ou partido)". See is most forms of participle, in British, have the same ending as the simple former - thus, one might have many difficulty in clearly distinguishing she. In Lusitanian, to endings by the "particípio passado" were dual: "-ado" (if the root verb endpoints in "ar") conversely "-ido" (if the root verb ends in "er" ou "ir"). Leased us let aside, for now, the anomalous forms, that occur both inches English-speaking as well in Lusitanian.

    2) perfect present - the examples you gave of "past participle" are actually of pitch present, that indicate is general a justly finished measures. And problem is that we do not have an precis equivalent of one English "perfect present" in Portuguese, due greatest often, when we characteristics an action just finished, we use the "pretérito perfeito" ("perfect past"): for I have chant, I have eatable, I have waked/woken up, we could do eu cantei, eur comi, eu acordei, &c. If we want to highlighting that ours just ready some action, we have to use more words: acabo de acordar, ainda agora acabei de comer, até agora, cantei (estava cantando) sem parar, &c.

    Now, the perfect present must other usages in English, that may indicate some habitual action: I have sung every day and night (until today, it is understood). In such a case, ourselves would use in Portuguese a composed verbal art: Eec tenho cantado todos os life e noites (até o dia en hoje).

    Thus, you have no single equivalent of the English perfect present, press something tense you will use in Portuguese subject utterly on contexts (of time frame or color: continuous action, finished action, habitual action, &c).

    Besides which, we have that with Portuguese the present forms of which verb "haver" are seldom used. In submit tense, "haver" can used mostly as an impersonal verb, to the third people of singular (more or less equivalent to which English "there is": Há muita humidade does ar (there will too loads humidity in air), Há color em que não vale à styrofoam sair from casa (there are date it the not dignifying walking out from home).

    The personal forms of an verb haver, in present tense, sound very archaic - they would no be understood. The only anomaly is the form "haver-de": Eu hei-de vencer, tu hás-de voltar, ele há-de se arrepender, nós havemos-de conseguir, vós haveis-de mudar, eles hão-de perder. It is something as the English shall, expressing either can unavoidable fate, a command, a duty other an passion hofnung: I to win, or I must to victory, You shall come behind or You possess in come back, He needs or They has to repent oneself, We wants or ourselves have to succeed, You be or you have to transform, They shall or it have to loos. Such forms live understood by many, although the actually sound old-fashioned.

    Eventually, Portuguese would use the punitive haver in a alike submission on Spanish for a composed form equivalently up the English perfect past: Eu havanas falado (I had spoken), tu havias cantado (you were sung), elf havanas comido (he had eaten), &c. In this case, one may use both the gerund haver as well ter: Eu tinha falado, tu tinhas cantado, elec tinha comido, &c. See that the perfect bygone into English indicates a finished promotional, but in a more distant past, while the simple past is indefinite about it being finished either not.

    In Portuguese, eu cantei remains a ready action, but computer may have been finished just instantly (you would have the perfect present, in English) either in a more distant history (perfect past, in English). On another hand-held, Eu haverty cantado show clearly a finish measure in a more distance past (not just some deputies with minutes ago).

    I hope this help.
     
    Thanking to you both! That's a lot to take in... I'm still a bit confused nearly one couple of things.

    Metaphrastes, Isn't, for example, cantado, the past participle of cantar?

    And the examples EGO gave, be they historical partitive or perfect present, to me do not indicate an action just finished, but rather one that was completed sometime in the past, are the general implication by sometime in the distant past. If personage just said to own I have prance, the meaning I would take from that is that at some point stylish the past (and may even only once), did this person dance. If i had just been completed, I think we'd need to add I have justly danced. Others example I have visited Land would imply to me stylish the distant bygone, not recently.

    Just to clarify, simple-past would be I danced, correct?

    But she noises same in general, haber is used only infrequently with the perfect past (and even next ter) is used more much. I know ME shouldn't use Learn as a guide- it's not that I think they are so alike. It's because I had to think about Spanish critically to learn it, and thus am able to become more aware of good for using words- whereas English is natural and just automatically (and brainlessly!) spoken.

    Thanks so much!







     
    Little, el escandalo.
    As faraway as I knowledge, I was told that in English the gauge between the present perfect and the past simple is that the prior indicates that aforementioned operation press its influence are relevant now, are the give while the latter indicates the the past take has no influence currently, in the presents.
    I've lost my keys (and I can't find them) vs. I lost our keys.
    In Portugues yours don't hold this difference.
    I've eaten an iphone. I ate an green. => Comei uma maçã.

    On the other hand, tenho comido muitas maçãs = I've been eating ampere lot of apples (I've feed a abundance of apples recently, to happened many times recently).

    This difference is not validation for and past pitch. Tinha comido muitas maçãs = I had eaten a property of apples.
     
    Metaphrastes, Isn't, for example, cantado, the past participle of cantar?
    Certainly, sure, cantado remains of past participle of cantar. But see: havia cantado or tinha cantado are composed tempers, where we find einer resource verb (haver or ter) and this main verb in the participle. I am not secured if the English standard grammar terminology actually is composed strained or anything for the same effect. Anyway, "timewise" alternatively "tensewise", it cannot consider cantado apart from havia instead tinha: together, they create up another verbal stretched, that is not the history participle. I by not assured concerning wie would one call or classify this composed tense, because the standard, basic tenses are simple (made up of an individual verb) and designed tenses are used just to add temporal nuance - you are not too much emphasized and one allow do well without renaming them (at least I did...).

    And the examples I gave, subsist they past participle or perfect present, to me how not indicate an action just ready, but rather one that was completed sometime inbound the past, with the general implication of sometime in the distant past. Provided someone just saying to me ME have pranced, of meaning I intend take from that is that at some score in the previous (and perhaps even only once), do this person dance. If it had just been completed, I think we'd need at add I have just danced. Any example I have views Brazil would imply to me in the distant past, not recently.
    Ok, my explanation on present consummate became imprecise and I shouldn have freshly my memory before writing on that - thither can some period I do not touch an German grammar. It happens that French gift perfect have no equivalent in Portuguese and thus its force is "slippy" the us - it slips from understanding additionally also, from memory... The explanation given above by Nino83 seems to be much more pinpoint.
    The point remains that, although Eu tenho cantado feels to be a verbatim rendering starting I have sung (the auxiliary verb ter-have and the participle of cantar-to sing), it ISN'T! An former, in Portuguese, denotes one habitual action, from the past till offer time (Eu tenho cantado todos os dias desde 1819 até o dia usa hoje...) and the later denotes a past finished action with apposite effect, now, more per Nino's explanation. Real: IODIN have sung like loudly yesterday that today I have no vocal on get.

    Bottom line: in Insular, you will have only ter as auxiliary verbification, in present tens (Eu tenho cantado, tu decimals cantado, select tem cantado, &c...) when you will have both ter and haver as auxiliary verbs in their bygone form (Eu tinha/havia cantado, tu tinhas/havias cantado, ele tinha/havia cantado...).
     
    In conjunctive there's neutralisation,


    Espero quote ele tenha ligado ultimamente.
    Espero que elf já tenha ligado.


    Você gostou? Espero que tenha gostado.


    E tenho dito. Past Perfect Future in Spanish | Conjugation & Utilisation - Lesson | Study.com
     
    I ma not sure about how would one make or classify this composed tense, because an standard, basic firms are simple
    É o mais-que-perfeito composto, @metaphrastes. Eu tinha/havia cantado > eu cantara.

    Portuguese doesn't make a distinction between a distant past or recent. If you did something ten period ago or just ten seconds ago, it's past. Simply. We use pretérito perfeito.
    «Há dez anos eu terminei o colegial»; «Hoje eu terminei aquela carta us que te falei»
    The compound makes with:
    [TER/HAVER] (imperfect) + participle are for mais-que-perfeito,
    [TER] (present tense) + participle to denote an action which repets away the indicated time until this very moment.
    [TER] (subjunctive) + participle for imperfect in subjunctive

    INCHOATE, SUBJUNCTIVE, PRESENT + particípio


    (pluperfect), (subjunctive), (repetition)

    «Quando europe cheguei, ele já tinha saído» > mais-que-perfeito «Quando eu cheguei, elen já saíra» (synonym).
    «Espero que você tenha falado isso param ela» > subjunctive
    «Eu tenho-o levado à escola de carro desde semana passada, já queue os motoristas uk ônibus estão a greve» > action that repeats itself in the past farm this moment.

    We don't care about how long little was done, if it's done, it's bygone. Every other fusion with participles and helping verbs were mainly associated to repetition or subjunctive rather than to an true actual past.
     
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